Penny Gross: It's a little hard for me to think that I've been on the COG board for 27 years. Never dreamed that it would be that long, but it's been a fascinating ride to watch how the region has changed over time. We weren't nearly as cohesive as we are now. We had aims and goals, but we were not having the same kind of really regional cooperation opportunities. It was sort of like we needed to do this and we needed to do that. We needed to do this over here, but it wasn't as cohesive as it is today.

Robert McCartney: Welcome to Think Regionally, a monthly podcast. I'm your host, Robert McCartney. When Gross first joined the board, a major concern was gang violence. Officials recognized that the problem wasn't confined to just one jurisdiction.

Penny Gross: In those days, back in the mid-nineties, we were looking at a lot of drug issues. As we went into the gang issues, we ultimately decided we needed to have a gang summit, and we did that. I believe it was in 2004 and it was a two-day summit, which was highly unusual. We got some funding for it, had it at a hotel in Crystal City. We had more than 500 people participate. It was public safety, it was nonprofits, it was elected officials. The gang issue was becoming really intense, but I do remember one of the big issues was not just gangs but guns. That was one of the things that was creating a huge issue for our public safety personnel was the guns portion of gangs.

Robert McCartney: How would you compare the gangs, drugs, and guns issue today to what the issues were back then?

Penny Gross I think we've been able to manage it somewhat, we haven't been able to eliminate it, but a lot of the work that went on to do the prevention, suppression and then interdiction has helped.

Robert McCartney: At about the same time the region's police and fire departments and other first responders stepped up their collaboration after a wake-up call regarding a different security threat.

Penny Gross: I will say from the public safety piece, 911 was a huge game changer for the region. We discovered that not all of our agencies, our public safety agencies were able to speak to one another, even with just their radios. 911 at the Pentagon was a good example of that, and so that gave us an opportunity to really work on the safety and security of the entire region. And so we have the police chiefs committee and we have the fire chiefs working and we have the CAOs committee, so that there's a lot of work that goes... That are not elected officials, but they are the folks who are sort of been tasked with actually administering our local governments.

Robert McCartney: The CAOs committee sponsored by COG comprises the chief administrative officers of the regions, counties, and municipalities. Turning to the environment, Gross feels that she has had perhaps her biggest impact in ensuring that local governments, in addition to the federal and state administrations, got involved directly in protecting the Chesapeake Bay. So looking back on your extended career, what would you say have been your proudest accomplishments at COG?

Penny Gross: Well, I would say that my work on Chesapeake Bay issues and water issues are probably the things that I am very proud about and that I had not anticipated getting involved in. I did not think that water issues would become sort of a hallmark of my career. But in 1998, as the Chesapeake 2000 agreement was being drafted, we had COG staff who were paying attention to this and said local governments need to be included in the Chesapeake agreements. They've worked before. And so I was tasked... Remember I'd only been on the COG board a couple of years. I was tasked with putting together a group here at COG to investigate whether we needed to have a Chesapeake Bay policy committee. We did not have one. And we sort of worked up and down the Mid-Atlantic for regionals, groups from Philadelphia down to Richmond trying to figure out if there was a role for local governments in the Chesapeake Bay Watershed. The answer was yes, we needed a committee. I was made the chairman of the committee, and that committee still exists, and I'm still on it.

Robert McCartney: The Chesapeake 2000 agreement updated a multi-state program originally created in 1983 to reduce pollution flowing into the Bay.

Penny Gross: I think that one of the things that has happened over the last 20 years or so is that the regional governments, the regional jurisdictions, whether they're large or small, have done a whole lot more in the way of addressing stormwater, wastewater. So that affects the Bay.

Robert McCartney: Those changes have helped improve water clarity and in increased the crab and oyster population. A continuing challenge then and now was persuading officials in Pennsylvania and New York that they have a vital role to play in protecting the Chesapeake. Those states don't border the Bay, but many of their rivers and streams flow into it.

Penny Gross: Now, for a long time we talked about restoring the Chesapeake Bay. We discovered that that didn't necessarily resonate with some folks because they would never see the Bay. And I remember testifying in Congress, it was probably in 2006 or something, and a member of Congress from upstate New York said to me, "What does Chesapeake Bay mean to people in the Chemung River Valley where I represent?" And I said, "Congressman, it may not mean a lot. The Chesapeake Bay may not mean a lot to them, but the Chemung River does mean a lot to them." And so we really changed the discussion to bring it down to your local streams because if you can really focus on your local streams, then the Bay is going to get better.

Robert McCartney: The health of the Chesapeake Bay watershed continues to improve with greater attention turned to its tributaries, including the Potomac and the Anacostia River, which is gradually being opened for more recreational opportunities like fishing, boating, and even swimming. But the Bay is only one of several environmental issues that have engaged Gross over the years. You've spoken also about the importance of guarding against drought in the region. That's a threat that experts say has intensified by the disruptions caused by climate change.

Robert McCartney: So what do we need to do in the area going forward to guard against drought?

Penny Gross: One of the things that COG did very well, I think was try to align all of our local jurisdictions so that we were operating into the same rubric. Instead of having people in the District of Columbia could water their lawns with the people across the street in Western Avenue couldn't, Maryland, couldn't water their lawns. So you had this give and take that was could be... It got angry, it got very angry, but we were able to figure out a process and a plan to address drought. In 1999, we did a water summit at George Washington University sponsored by COG, and we determined that we had enough water. Our main water supply of course, is the Potomac River. We probably had enough water to sustain us to 2035. Well, 2035 is coming up quickly and last year I suggested at a COG meeting that we do another water summit. What we've done instead is instead of one big summit, we're doing sort of smaller meetings over a longer period of time. We need to determine what our needs are going to be in the next 50 years. One of the things that I think will be very helpful, and in Fairfax County we've already done this, I think Maryland is looking at, is we have a lot of quarries that are reaching the useful end of their lives. Quarries make a great storage area for water. If we could have some more reservoir space in local quarries as we're doing in Fairfax County, I think that will stand the region in really good stead because we will have had the foresight to develop these before we meet.

Robert McCartney: When Gross first joined COG, the region was focused on some of the same issues that it wrestles with today, such as transportation and the impact of population growth, but it didn't anticipate a big one. You mentioned before we started this that some of the early discussions at COG were very much focused on issues of growth and sustainability, but that there wasn't as much focus on housing as there is now.

Penny Gross: That's right. In 1999, we had our very first COG retreat, and when I look at the notes from that retreat, it was on strategic relations, growth, transportation, communication, infrastructure and planning and execution. Nowhere in this really did it say housing, but because of our growth and because of some of the ups and downs, we got hit pretty heavily by the Great Recession and then by the pandemic. And so we've had to sort of reboot in some cases. And so housing has become probably with transportation, the major issue I think, in the region.

Robert McCartney: On the other hand, COG was prescient in foreseeing that a key way to absorb population growth without overwhelming the transportation network was to concentrate housing around metro stations and other high capacity transit hubs or HCTs. That's still a central part of COGS strategy today. The challenge is ensuring that some of that housing is affordable for middle and lower income residents. COG's regional housing targets call for 75% of new housing to be located in HCTs and 75% of those units to be affordable to low and middle income residents.

Penny Gross: It's been sort of interesting. I remember because I was here working on the hill when the first segment of Metro opened. It was from DuPont Circle to Union Station [inaudible 00:12:53].

Robert McCartney: I remember that.

Penny Gross: And I remember that the discussions at the time were to put housing near metro so that people could walk to metro and then get to work. So it was the idea that it was going to be affordable for the regular worker to live near a metro stop. That's not the way it's been developed now. Metro stops if they've got housing around its expensive condominiums and so forth. That's really not the way it was set up to be in the seventies and whenever it was being planned in the sixties. So we really need to build more density around our metro stops. We also need to make it much more affordable. It can't be just for those who already have to... Empty nesters move into today. It's got to be for the people who are entry level and moving up in their careers so that they've got a place that they can afford to live.

Robert McCartney: Gross and COG have long advocated for support for the metro transit system. That work is especially important today and is perhaps the most prominent example of the need for different jurisdictions to collaborate.

Penny Gross: One of the things is when we talk about a healthy transit system, that is an ongoing issue. Metro has been wonderful for the region, but it needs greater investment, and how are we going to invest in metro? If we can crack that particular nut, I think we would be in a much better situation. Now, Randy Clark's a new metro general manager, has been talking a lot about this. He's making some efforts to make some changes, but we also need to look at how the individual jurisdictions are funding it. Maryland funds metro differently than Virginia funds metro, and that's different yet from the District of Columbia. So we've got this situation where we've got some inequities. I think in the way we fund it, we've got to solve that.

Robert McCartney: One of the biggest changes in local government during Gross's career has been the increase in the number of women serving in elective office today. Women hold the highest executive office in four of the six largest jurisdictions in our region. They head the district plus Prince George's Loudoun and Prince William Counties. How have you seen the role of women change during your career and what are prospects for women going forward in public service?

Penny Gross: Well, I've only been an elected official for the last 28 years, but I have a lifetime of service in elective politics because I started on the hill right out of college. So when I started on the hill, there were only two female senators. One of them was Maurine Neuberger of Oregon, and the other was Margaret Chase Smith of Maine. And so women were not even allowed to go on... A staff woman, a staff member could not go on the floor of Senator. She was a female. She had to send a page in to get the boss. So it's been very interesting to watch the political trajectory of women in office. It's hard. There are different expectations sometimes of women. So those of us who are in elective office constantly need to be mentors for younger women coming along, and that's one of the things I've always tried to do. You can do this, it's risky, but if it's worth doing, it's worth taking the risk.

Robert McCartney: Now is the time when I share some of my personal thoughts, as should be clear by now Gross is a model of an elected official who represents the interests of both her Fairfax district and those of the larger metropolitan region. From early in her career, she recognized that many important issues needed to be addressed at the regional level. Through cooperation across the Potomac and among the various county and municipal governments, the benefits are there to see from improved radio communications among police departments to cleaner water in the Chesapeake Bay. As we've discussed consistently in this podcast, we need such cooperation more than ever to deal with critical challenges such as addressing the effects of climate change, supporting public transit, building more affordable housing, and promoting racial and economic equity. Frankly, there was seldom a lot of glory for a politician to work as assiduously as Gross on regional collaboration. It's not the kind of labor that typically attracts public attention. She drew this distinction herself at one point in our interview.

Penny Gross: A lot of people think that running for office and serving in an office is glamorous. It's not. It's hard work. There are show horses, but you really need to be a workhorse to get the job done.

Robert McCartney: Penny Gross has been a workhorse for our region for nearly three decades, and we're all the better for it. I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We welcome your feedback. Please email comments to thinkregionally, one word at mwcg.org. This podcast is produced by Lindsey Martin and Steve Kania. Look for our next one in September after our summer break. This is your host Robert McCartney, urging everyone as always to think regionally.